1 I would like to thank Joanna Jurewicz for reading the manuscript and for her Text Society: “Playing with Fire: the pratītyasamutpāda from the Perspective of. The arguments are based on articles by Joanna Jurewicz, which unfortunately I can’t easily access right now, such as “Playing with fire: the. Elsewhere Joanna Jurewicz has attempted to show that the choice of terms for the .. „Playing with Fire: Pratītyasamutpāda from the perspective of Vedic.
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Then, at another point, the Buddha produced a different causal chain to ironize and criticise Vedic cosmogony, and noticed that it led very nicely into the earlier chain – perhaps because it is natural for the creation of the individual to lead straight on to the six senses, and these, via ‘contact’ and ‘feeling’, to thirst.
It could also go back six, seven, or eight links – nothing hangs on the difference. Bhava becoming ; However, it’s hard to do justice to it without typing out several pages of the book Anyone familiar with the discourses of the Buddha will most likely have clocked that the Buddha uses fire as a metaphor in several different ways. Nama is not only perception and rupa is not merely objects.
As Tilt says, such ideas don’t necessarily subtract, they may well enrich how one views the Dhamma. And, I might add, irony does not weather well.
Phassa contact ; 7. It is quite plausible, however, that someone failed to notice that once the first four links become part of the chain, it’s negative version meant that in order to abolish ignorance one first had to abolish consciousness! Rupa is described as the four great elements and nama as various mental constituents.
This eith important for contemporary Buddhists. It emphasises that the Buddhist texts are not divine revelation, they are no infallible and we must be wary of an over literal interpretation of them.
It would not be so surprising considering how much Buddhist doctrine is a reworking of preexisting concepts. Also, I do have a copy of the Jurewicz paper, but I don’t know if it would be proper to post it.
This corresponds to ignorance. No registered users and 4 guests.
Dependent Origination and the Vedas – Dhamma Wheel
Tanha craving ; 9. Fire was very much part of hurewicz religious imagination of India by the time of the Buddha, and Gombrich argues that it is from this source that the Buddha draws for his fire metaphor. First there is nothing, not even existence or non-existence. For reference, the 12 links are: I’m not qualified to comment on the alleged Vedic parody entailed within the first 4 nidanas, but whether it is so or not, there’s a lot of deep Dhammic content entailed within the first 4, as exhibited through the teachings of venerable Nanananda.
No commentator is infallible, right? Vedana feeling ; 8. Realising that playinh this point in the chain there should be a reference to the emergence of the individual person with teh five khandha, the tradition made nama-rupa equivalent to the five khandha by saying that rupa was the first khandha and nama referred to the other four.
I have been re-reading the notes from those lectures and wanted to highlight lecture seven which discussed the use of fire as a metaphor by the Buddha.
The purpose of this post was essentially to say that whether Gombrich’s theory is true or not, we’re better off not just clipping off the first four nidanas as some kind of antiquated irrelevancy.
Theravada Buddhism Web Directory. I think it makes sense. Following a psychological interpretation, the primary cause of suffering is ignorance. The 12 links are one of those things with so many varied interpretations, the more context we have the better off we’ll be. Thich Nhat Hanh “The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees. In particular where the Buddha used metaphors drawn from the Vedic traditions, there have often be misunderstood by later Buddhists, even in some cases before the canon was written down.
Genesis 1 The Beginning In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. The Buddha, of course, was rejecting the idea of the atman and the denial of the atman makes the Vedic cosmogony meaningless. Erich Fauwallner argued long ago that the chain would logically have started with Tanha, in order to match up with the Four Noble Truths, but starting with the sense bases would work equally well.
As for the specific link formulation, – it’s just one of the way in which Buddha expressed the Conditioned Arising model. The paper is a not easy to follow: But of course that doesn’t mean that we have to discard what we know about the 12 nidana sequence, if anything this perspective should help us have a little deeper understanding of what this particular concept is trying to convey.
As for the rest of Gombrich’s speculations, they are based in a reincarnation interpretation of Dependent Origination rather than a psychological interpretation. There are many other suttas with quite different formulations, which wait for serious study, for example:.